Nikki & Frank - A Tender Parting!

Bought a 2/H digitised Niiki & Frank off Steve at B2B over the Winter and tried it out in anger today.
Seemed to be struggling and squealing a lot and when I parted the tender from th loco and put the controller into reverse, I found out why.
The tender shot off backwards at twice the speed of the loco!
 
Reading CV's off both units they seem to be more or less compatible so..........Assuming that the both are set to the decoders default settings, what CV's do I alter to get the tender to run slower?
 
 
 

Provided both decoders have similar CVs, before adjusting the them I would personally remove both motors and test them out of the loco and tender. One may well be contaminated with lubricant and taking more current than the other. Only if both motors are in good condition and fairly well matched would I consider adjusting the CVs.

I have read several reports on these locos that the tender is faster than the loco - but only slightly. Neils idea sounds good to me.

struggling and squealing a lot and when I parted the tender from th loco and put the controller into reverse, I found out why

 
OH Dear............You dont mean Hands On stuff do you?
 
Joking apart, you may be right, the loco does sound a bit noisy.
 
Anyone had a Nikki and Frank apart got any tips?

Time to get the screwdriver out !
 
A guide on how the loco and tender go together is here :
 
http://www.champex-linden.de/lgb_produktdatenbank/index.html
 
Scroll down til you find your Frank S - e.g. LGB 22261 (the green version)
 
Top tip - don't plug and unplug the connecting wire between the loco and tender a lot, the connection WILL go on at least one wire.................

You  will find  that  one  unit  is  slightly  faster  than  the  other!
The  fact  that  there  is  only  1  traction tyre  doesnt  help  either!
 
When  I  have  set  up  these  locos and  other  dual  powered  locos  with  2  decoders  I  have  found  tat  a  bit  of  trial  &  error  with  the   start  volts, acceleration  &  deceleration  CVs  (#2,#3 & #4) is  nescessary,
 
Also  the  addition   of  a  traction  tyred  wheelset  to  the  tender  improves  things  greatly,  especially in  the  haulage  dept
 
Hope  this  help
 
But I  thought  you  were  doin  STD  Gauge!!

Has it got Massoth chips?

Mine is fitted with them and if they are not connected one or the other sometimes misses the slow speed comand and ends up doing what yours is doing!

Try pressing F8 and see if the speed changes

Curiouser and curiouser!
Have had bottom cover off motor block on the loco. It is all spotless! Looks brand new.
There is no connecting lead between the loco and the tender nor does there appear to be any provision for such a thing. They are quite definitely 2 separate units.
 
At the moment, I am experimenting with CV49  Loco at 3, Tender at 2 and CV2 loco at 3 tender currently at 50, much better than before but still out running the loco as it gathers speed. Unfortunately rain has stopped testing at the moment.
 
Will try increasing the value of CV2 on the tender then try increasing the value of CV3 to fine trim...............or perhaps I could increase the value of CV49 on the loco...........................AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!.

Just checked mine again and it has a cable from the loco with a plug on it and a socket on the tender. it is only for power transfer as both loco and tender have seperate chips.

No connecting lead eh ?
 
Obviously means there is a decoder in each half then.
 
Try taking a motor out of another loco to get a match without mucking around with CVs.
Sorry to state the obvious (again) but put the loco and the tender 50mm apart when you test them..............but you were doing that anyway weren't you ?
 
Without wanting to be smug, my Frank S is a star runner............love it.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2PhVoKS-Kk

Nice little vid Paul - how many decoders in that then please?
I am thinking of putting one XLS in mine.

Thanks Alan.
 
There are two Zimo MX64 decoders with SUSI interface connected to a Dietz micro XS sound card sited in the tender. There is volume control on the underside of the tender which can be adjusted with a small screwdriver.
 
You will probably find that two Zimos and a Dietz sound card cost about the same as a Massoth XLS.
With the Massoth though, I think you will need a six wire connector to the tender (2 track pick up power, 2 motor feed and two for lights) provided the speaker is in the loco..........

Thanks for all the helpful comments lads and I did enjoy the video.
Having adjusted CV's 2 and 3 on the tender, I can now get them to run around the circuit touching as they start and finishing about twelve inches apart which is far more compatible than they were!
 
It has certiainly cleared the straining noises.
 
I have also tried to make the loco just a tad faster than the tender so that the tender isnt trying to push or pull the against traction tyre.
 
Next fine weather opportunity I will try it under load with 4 Rugen coaches.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Nice one 55.5, well done.
Thanks Paul. I did realise I might need 6 wires unless I run the front light from track power with a diode for direction. Can't turn them off though.

Just as a matter of interest, I did follow Pauls' suggestion and tried another 'D' motor in the tender. Leaving the decoder settings as amended in the foregoing postings, it was if anything a slight improvement!
 
Went indoors to get the Rugen coaches, came out with the first and.....................................you guessed it, it was raining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Allen: Have you chipped your Nikki& Frank's using the MAssoth XLS? I am trying to decide whether to go the one-decoder or the 2-decoder route.  

While others have gone the single decoder route on this locomotive,  I would not advise to do so.
 
My green 'Frankie' came with two type 1, #55020, decoders.  These are not the most sophisticated nor competent at fine motor control,  but I found that to maintain basically similar speeds,  I needed a higher CV2 on the loco than on the tender drive.  CV2 is the start voltage at speed step 1.  The locomotive, due its rather complex circuit board,  has a higher start voltage requirement than the basic, almost non-existent decoder interface circuit board in the tender.  I was able to get matched speeds with CV2 programming.
 
After much playing around setting things up,  I gutted the loco and will fit a Massoth 'LS' to the loco and an 'L' to the tender.  The two type 1 decoders are now seeing service in a #20761 Spremberg and as a direct decoder on a LGB 'shorty' sound board.

Tim:
The LS and the L  have different response and driving characteristics and they may not synch well even with extensive tweaking of the driving curve.  If I were to go the 2-decoder route, I  would use either 2 L decoders and an S via a SUSI interface, or 2 LS decoders.  I have not played much with the SUSI interface, and this would give an opportunity to do so.  

Mohammed,
                  many thanks.  I would have thought that the 'L' and 'LS' had similar driving characteristics as LGB made so many two motor steam locomotives (tender drive).  Will need to follow through with your suggestions.
 
 

Has anyone gone the XLS route with the Nikki & Frank's?  Any noteworthy issues?