Kerr-Stuart Brazil class

Hi All,
 
I've been contemplating a second steamer for the T.V.B.L. and I have been offered a S/H gauge-convertable Kerr-Stuart Brazil Class. I haven't seen it yet, but I assume (probably wrongly, knowing me) that it could be an Accucraft Excelsior (discontinued).
Notwithstanding all the usual advice about S/H locos, has anyone had experience of one of these, and how does it compare with other smallish locos, and is there anything else it could be, for an 'off the shelf' loco? What sort of value does it have, I cant find a new price listed.

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

If it is an Excelsior, box stock they are a bit 'flighty' as they have very small cylinders. (Same as a Ruby, I think).  Many have been converted with larger cylinders, which makes them as good as later Accu UK locos.

If it's cheap, then OK, but don't expect the controllability of Edrigs and similar locos.  If it's not cheap, there is a new version coming out in the Autumn, wait for that, it'll be a cracker!!

NHN

A steamy fan from the Isle of Man

Thanks Neil,
 
That's a good start. I've still no idea what they cost new so therefore no idea what it might be worth when I eventually see it. I don't even know if it's R/C or not yet, I suspect not from the description (3rd hand).

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

I'd hang on for the Accucraft Leader if I were you,it's got the larger cylinders of the standard locos.

Allan & Helen, of the Frog and Ferret Railway.



If you only learn by your mistakes,don't join bomb disposal.

The sample of Leader was being finished at the factory last week, so sample photos soonish.  Will be a very attractive proposition at the price, should retail at around £580 manual and £760 r/c. 
 
Apart from being a good runner Leader should also look better than Excelsior.
 
If I was offered a s/h Excelsior I'd want to see it run as it might have been "fettled" and be a good un, or it might not!
 
Happy steamings,
 
John
 
 
 
 

Play: Groudle Glen Railway www.ggr.org.uk
Play: Isle of Man Steam Railway www.iomsrsa.com
Work: www.track-shack.com

Thanks John, useful info.
 
With luck I will be able to have the Excelsior(?) here for a day or two to play with, before I decide.
 
It would seem that with the new one immanent, the value of an un-retouched s/h one would be a little less than before.

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

GRS had (they may still have) a manual Excelsior in their secondhand section for £495. They're normally at the top of the price scale so anything beneath that would be acceptable.
 
They're a nice looking loco though and a new Leader will probably be heading my way when they come out!

James, South Wales

Hi
 
i have 3 of these , one of the best looking locos around. dealers now seam to be charging £460 iish for one that is very good  unmarked factory finish
 
now on to what they like if manual and with out up grades.
they can be very fussy one day they work fine the other not ! not locos for people not use to live steam.
 
the burner is not very good lots of noise not much heat.
small boiler and gas tank mean a run time of 15mins if you put a new burner in you will need to fit a top up valve as the water then runs out before the gas!( the oorgnalburner works better on mixed gas, but you will still need a top up vale)
 
with the orginal cylinders it does not have low down grunt , if you run with a long train or on grades it will only work fast . on a flat line with a small train it works well at a better speed.
 
with new cylinders it is works a lot better but you need a new burner and top up valve as it uses more steam.
 
these are not like other acuccraft locos they give the impression of not being build in a factory more garden shead as bolt holes may be in a difrent place just a bit but does mean when rebuilding it can be a bit more work.
 
i still like them i have one which is almost orgnial and one with new cylinders and one compleatlley rebuilt.
 
hope this of iinterest
 
 

Thanks
Chris Mann
Crawley, west sussex

website
http://www.freewebs.com/linewithnoname
videos
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=thecsmann

Many thanks for that Chris.

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

I now have the aforementioned loco in my posession for evaluation trials. The original purchaser is deceased but I am reliably informed that it has only been steamed on a couple of occasions. The overall condition is that of 'straight from the box', and thereby a problem for me in that it is also sans box. Other than that it is seemingly unmarked, having been mostly displayed.  The rest of the contents of the box ARE included, with the spare axle for convertion to 45mm. It is not R/C but there are holes for fitting the Rx switch in the bunker so shouldn't be too difficult to fit. There is no water gauge on the boiler, but it has been supplied with a refill plug. It is only fitted with centre buffers and no couplers.
 

 
Steam trials will be conducted this afternoon if the 'free boiler water' holds off long enough.

Attached Image(s)

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

Spotted it on the Accucraft stand at Stoneleigh this year:
 

Attached Image(s)

West Herts

The Leader should have a superheater fitted where Excelsior does not.

Allan & Helen, of the Frog and Ferret Railway.



If you only learn by your mistakes,don't join bomb disposal.

Sounds like pretty much standard trim to me Bob, only the bigger Accucraft locos (not sure about Superior and Joan) have gauge glasses. The refill (assuming you mean an in steam one for use with a spray pump) will be aftermarket, and I'm not sure but I reckon the safety valve cover is too. I think every Accucraft loco is "r/c ready" in that holes are provided for a servo and a switch.

Judging by the dull paint on the smokebox door it's been run a few times; that said, these early locos have less refined burners than later ones and no baffle on the inside of the door so it's easily done.

Matt not in Plymouth any more. Still Brian after all these years...

Steam tests, tested. I cant say completed because there's all afternoon yet.
 
What have I discovered? Well, nothing of any real import! Excelsior's burner seemed to work well and was more controllable than Countess' even after the grease had been applied to the gas valve, which I must say has changed its characteristics a shade, but it's still mighty touchy.
 
Matt, the smoke-box door looks, on closer inspection, to have been "weathered", i.e. re-painted matt black, and the dart handles were loose. The safety valve looks original, or at least the paint looks undisturbed.
 
The lack of a proper coupling (paper clip) made life difficult as regards pulling any load but it did manage what I put behind it well enough, but was obviously not as powerful as Countess. I checked the cylinders and they are only 3/8" dia.
 
Manual operation on my track is not for the feint hearted of the infirm (me, probably), the severe grades mean that it will run away too easily especially with any load, so I would have to R/C it for it to be any use, as well as perhaps fitting larger cyls. Having said that, I think it looks very well alongside Countess, and from that point of view would compliment the fleet, so if the price is right (still to be negotiated), I might just indulge.
 

 
My very grateful thanks to all those that took the trouble to reply to this thread, there is nothing quite like taking a step into the dark unknown, and your help has insured that this wasn't so blind.

Attached Image(s)

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

Doug's photo shows the safety valve cover to be standard fit- I was wrong there!

It does look well alongside the Countess certainly. I doubt the larger cylinders are still availiable, but I'm sure if the need arose you could make your own! I suspect full (2 channel) r/c would make a difference to the controllabillity but I don't think it'll ever be a heavy hauler as standard. As you say- if the price is right!

Matt not in Plymouth any more. Still Brian after all these years...

Yes Matt, I'm fairly sure if push came to shove I could actually bore out these cyls, I might not get a full 1/2" but probably not far off.
 
I understand it's more usual to only R/C F&R on these but I agree that full R/C would be much better.

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

The cylinders may still be available, have a look at this link http://www.sm32.co.uk/ click on products and then super excelsior.
 
Looks a very nice engine and if the price is right I'd go for it.

James, South Wales

Does say "in stock- 12/01/2006" on the website though James, hence my caution!

Apparently he has been cutting down the amount of 16mm stuff he does as his interests lie more in G1 now. Worth an ask though!

Matt not in Plymouth any more. Still Brian after all these years...

Hmmm. Intersting. It shows stock at 2006 but nothing later. Obviously a phone call needed. Also I'm surprised to see 9/16" bore, sounds BIG.
 
Cheers for the info.

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

brianthesnail96


Does say "in stock- 12/01/2006" on the website though James, hence my caution!

Apparently he has been cutting down the amount of 16mm stuff he does as his interests lie more in G1 now. Worth an ask though!

I didn't read that bit Matt!!!!
 
He's a helpful chap though, I rang him to ask about a chimney for Superior and although he doesn't make them anymore he gave me the dimensions and Phil (Philbahn of this parish) produced one for me.
 
From what I gather he produces limited runs of things, 200 units or so, and when they're gone they're gone. But you never know! 

James, South Wales

That sounds a useful tip.
 
Having thought about it quite a bit today, and searched out some prices, it's going to have to come very cheap. If I sported for a set of cylinders at £85 (if still available), £20 apiece for servos, £50 for an Rx, plus switch, battery pack, etc, I would bust the thick end of another £200. Add that to a fair price to this guy, and I would probably be as well doing as Ferrysteam suggests, and wait for a new R/C Leader, and save myself a lot of hassle time in the W/shop into the bargain.
 
But then that's what decisions are all about.

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

I did a little more testing of Countess today and initially I had quite a bit of trouble with the burner continually blowing out, even after it had warmed up. I persevered and after a bit it seemed to improve and was a lot more controllable than previously. This could be put down to the grease or simply that I'm gettin' better at it. I managed to control it down to giving a good 25 mins run, though I still cant stop the safety blowing off most of the time, unless I add water every trip, which isn't strictly necessary as it will do at least four trips with water showing in the glass (that proves the worth of a Gauge Glass). I also find that I'm getting a lot of oil collecting on the footplate and inspection showed a loose connection on the steam pipe from the lubricator to the super heater. This has been loose since new, so anybody indulging check yours before you fire up the first time and save the mess, it's quite difficult to remove.
 
All in all, I'm over the moon with Countess and therefore I need to be careful that whatever I pick for a second loco is not going to disappoint, hence the very careful evaluation of Excelsior.
 
Further testing this afternoon proved interesting, I found these cylindrical things, painted yellow and black, looked a little like gas canisters, but on opening they fizzed and gave forth a frothy brown stuff that tasted delightful, just right with the sun shining down, so I tested a few of those as well.
 

 
Countess with full complimet of Pickerings.
 
 
 
 

Attached Image(s)

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

I can't say enough nice things about Accucraft's Countess, it has to be their best effort thus far.  However, I did find initially that the burner needed some attention until I found an adjustment that worked consistently.  The key is the collar that adjusts airflow into the burner;  I found that at the factory setting (which may have been arbitrary), the burner would run fine for about 10 minutes, then start to behave erratically and blow itself out.  Long story short:  it took several attempts to find the "sweet spot", where the collar mostly covers the air holes, leaving an opening of perhaps 2mm.

On a side note:  any Countess owner might be well advised to check the tightness of the myriad tiny machine screws in the valve gear -- I found several that needed attention when I first steamed the engine up.  Losing one of those on the track could ruin your day.

Hope that helps.

Having found one thing loose, I did run a check all round and found nothing else obvious, but thanks for the tip. I do wonder a little about all those valve linkage joints, and how much they will wear in time to come.
 
I suppose one thought would have to be an Earl but I rather feel that would be cheating.

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

 
Just thought I'd add a factory picture of the engineering sample of Leader for perusal. 
 
Things of note are there is a gauge glass, and Accucraft standard (bigger than Excelsior) cylinders.
 
And for some strange reason the S&K Green looks very, very close to Ailsa Green, but I can't imagine how that happened.
 
Also in Maroon, Black, and Whipsnade dark Blue (pictured).
 
Just waiting confirmation there will be a choice of chimneys in the box, personally I prefer the straight one.
 
Happy steamings,
 
John

Attached Image(s)

Play: Groudle Glen Railway www.ggr.org.uk
Play: Isle of Man Steam Railway www.iomsrsa.com
Work: www.track-shack.com

A little added extra is the standard Accu couplings. Excelsior only has centre buffers and the mounting hole centres are different, so it will have to be re-drilled when I can afford the time, and have raised the necessary energy/enthusiasm for the all other jobs on it.  

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

That's a cracking engine but I think it would look better with the straight chimney although the prototype has the stovepipe  balloon.Hope it does come with the straight chimney.

Allan & Helen, of the Frog and Ferret Railway.



If you only learn by your mistakes,don't join bomb disposal.

Ferrysteam


That's a cracking engine but I think it would look better with the straight chimney although the prototype has the stovepipe.Hope it does come with the straight chimney.

Yes I think she is a little cracker.  We should get some better pictures soon as the sample has just arrived in the UK, I think we need to see some different angles, also I'd like to see her on a train in "surroundings" .
 
Also forgot to mention Leader will be the lowest cost prototypical scale live steam loco on the market (to the best of my knowledge).
 
Happy steamings,
 
John
 
 

Play: Groudle Glen Railway www.ggr.org.uk
Play: Isle of Man Steam Railway www.iomsrsa.com
Work: www.track-shack.com

A steamy fan from the Isle of Man

raised the necessary energy/enthusiasm for the all other jobs on it.

 
That should have read.........."raised the 'necessary'/energy/enthusiasm for the all other jobs on it." 
 
 
Allan,
 
I saw a re-joiner to your "If you only learn by your mistakes, don't join bomb disposal." It went, if you see a bomb disposal officer running........ try your hardest to keep up!
 
 

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

Can't wait....

Allan & Helen, of the Frog and Ferret Railway.



If you only learn by your mistakes,don't join bomb disposal.

  
 
Allan,
 
I saw a re-joiner to your "If you only learn by your mistakes, don't join bomb disposal." It went, if you see a bomb disposal officer running........ try your hardest to keep up!
 
 

Allan & Helen, of the Frog and Ferret Railway.



If you only learn by your mistakes,don't join bomb disposal.

Night all,catch you all tomorrow......

Allan & Helen, of the Frog and Ferret Railway.



If you only learn by your mistakes,don't join bomb disposal.

stovepipe?
no no, Balloon, spark arrester chimney.
Stove pipes like you see on foreign locos that jsut like a pipe, no fancy frills.
----
The loco looks alright, i was expecting a little bit more, maybe rivet detail etc, but i am sure it will make a great loco, my excelsior was brilliant, never had a better loco, then i sold it stupidly!

Andy,
 
Did you fit your Excelsior with the larger cylinders of leave "as is"?

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

Cheers Andy, when I get round to doing all the things that this one needs, I will have to look at it again.

You don't have to be mad to play trains on the TVBL....but it helps if you're a little loco!



Being long retired, I've discovered that now I work a lot harder than before, it's just that nobody pays!

I've checked with Accucraft, Leader will be fitted with the balloon stack chimney as in the photos but the standard Excelsior chimney will be supplied loose in the box, just in case people want to change.
 
Personally I think I'd want a Green one with a standard chimney on...
Or a Black one....  
Or a Maroon one........  
Or possibly a Blue one.....
 
Oh dear.......... Maybe I should get together with some friends to model a paper mill or something with a whole fleet of them
 
Happy steamings,
 
John
 
 

Play: Groudle Glen Railway www.ggr.org.uk
Play: Isle of Man Steam Railway www.iomsrsa.com
Work: www.track-shack.com

I'm thinking black....or blue....or light green......not maroon though.  Got a maroon loco already, I like to have as many different ones as poss....

Of course, that means Mrs NHN can tell I've bought a new one, but being as Sealion only lives a few miles away, I think I'd be sussed when he arrived with a big box..........

A steamy fan from the Isle of Man